Amen Nicole!! Those responses caused me pause. I would no more say ALL BLACK MEN suck no more than I'd say ALL MEN SUCK!!
I have not dated ALL BLACK MEN nor ALL MEN. I've had a relationship with those I've had a relationship with. I can only judge them because that's my experience or situation. Could I look at comments from some above and draw a conclusion--sure I can but that's all it is...a conclusion. They were good choices that turned into bad ones when faced with responsiblity. It's about MEN being responsible regardless if they wanted to be a parent or not. It's what seperates men from assholes. All BLACK MEN didn't impregnate me and abandon their child--a dumbass man imgrenated me and abandoned his child.
I'm not telling any of the women who made the comment you are not entitled to your opinion however to say ALL BLACK MEN suck is really unfair because your experience is not ALL BLACK MEN but those you've had a relationship with (good or bad).
Mary
Back to our regularly scheduled programming....
Let's not ruin the OPs thread discussing black men. Take it to the debate boards if we want to discuss whether or not black men suck.
Black wives and husbands are also more likely to separate. 16% of black couples between the ages of 18 and 44 have separated, versus 4% of comparable white couples. Black men are more than twice as likely to be unemployed as White men and make only 74 percent as much a year. Black men are more than six times as likely than White men to be incarcerated and their average jail sentences tend to be 10 months longer than those of White men.
Of single parent Black households in 2007, only 12 percent were led by men and that was due to the death of the child's mother. More than two-thirds of Black children lived in one-parent households in 2007, the majority headed by women.
And the reason why I know this is because I have a degree in Criminal Justice with a minor in Sociology and I have studied the black family many times. I want to help MY people to get past this difficult time BUT the only way to have CHANGE is to admit that there is a PROBLEM!!! I am not here to make friends I am here to speak the facts.
To the poster of this thread...sweetie I am sorry that your post took this turn. I am apologizing for my people who can not respect other people's opinions. As I said before I have been in your shoes and I do wish you the best.
UMM, your explanation for all of these un-cited facts is that BLACK MEN suck?That's what you think is behind all of that? Wow, this conversation just became SO not worth it. Have a good one!
To the orginal poster:
I would say give your child the best start up in life. Meaning, if you believe it would benefit your child to know his/her paternal grandmother than give it a shot. There's nothing to lose on your side. I believe in situations where the father leaves there is nothing you can do. You can spend hours and days trying to "change his mind" but it gets you no where. Believe me I tried it too. There comes a time when the focus becomes your child and you do what you need to for your child. If it means including the paternal grandparent then do it. Just don't try to pit mother against son because sometimes it just doesn't work. Simply present the opportunity and step back and allow her to accept or not.
Again, you make choices that are good for your child. You can tell his mother and allow her to include your child or not. It's all you can do. We can't make people do the right thing. We can hope they will but when/if they don't we still need to take care of our own. It will be your responsibility to explain to your child the choice the non-parent made. Hopefully, his mother will want to be involved and if so then "yes" she could as least show your child who he/she is.
Your focus now is to have a healthy pregnancy and if "he" does the right thing then it's has he should behave and if not then momma raise your baby with people that will love him/her regardless.
Good Luck
And child please, DO NOT apologize for me, I am a grown ass woman and I feel no need to apologize for something that I didn't even start.
sorry Latania. I often get your screennames mixed up. (and I don't need anyone to apologize for me. I won't debate this issue because it's relative to your situation.) I will say I won't comment again about the subject.
To the OP I am sorry to take your post off track
Mary
Okay ladies...calm down. Lets be civil and get back to the topic at hand and help this lady in need out. Please. And lets have a happy friday please :)
LOL!!Okay, okay, calm it down ladies. Sheesh. All men have the tendency to suck, not just black men...heck my SD is bi-racial. Does that mean only half of him sucks? (insert eye roll here)
There are plenty of men who are not ready to man up, including those that lack a tad more pigmentation. Woo sah
***To the OP. We reached out to her grandparents, and they absolutely LOVE her. They do not make excuses for his sorry behind. Period.***
After climbing for decades, the proportion of American homes without a father or stepfather has leveled off, according to a report from the National Fatherhood Initiative. The group claims its report, "Father Facts," is a compilation of the latest data regarding fathers, mothers, children, family well-being, "fragile families," child custody, child support, stepfamilies and adoption.
Here are some highlights:
- From 1960 to 1996, the number of children who lived in homes without a father or stepfather rose steadily -- from 7 million to 20 million.
- But since the mid-1990s, the number and proportion of children in father-absent homes has leveled off -- while the number of children living with both parents has remained fairly constant.
- The group cautioned in its report that while children who grow up without fathers are not doomed, father absence "significantly increases the risk that a child will suffer negative outcomes."
- Thirty-four percent of children live in homes without their biological father -- including 66 percent of black children, 35 percent of Hispanic children and 27 percent of white children.
The report also stated that the best predictor of father presence is marriage.
Source: Cheryl Wetzstein, "Fatherless Homes No Longer on Rise," Washington Times, April 9, 2002; Wade F. Horn and Tom Sylvester, "Father Facts," 4th Edition, 2002, National Fatherhood Initiative.
So it looks like black men do have a hard time raising their babies, at quite a higher rate than any other race.
My sons father is black, and while we are not together because he has a drinking problem, I am choosing to stay in contact with him and his mother. She can do good by her grandson, and who am I to refuse her that right?? So many women look forward to the day that they become grandma's, and this lady is one of them. Shortly before I got pregnant, she was telling her 3 sons (all whose father's were absent) that she can't wait until one of them makes her a grandma. And she is living up to that promise.
My sons father is doing as best of a job as he can, but he has a hard time with his temper (especially while drinking) and while he's never physically hurt either of us, the possibility is still there, ESPECIALLY when he's drinking. I don't want my son to see that temper, or even follow suit with that of his father or grandfather.
Without a prominent male figure in his own life as a child (his father was a drunk), he has done a fantastic job... Even though he's admitted to me that if the choice were up to him, he never wanted children. Of course, he didn't choose to "glove it up" when the time came for sex... But that's a whole nother issue!
I guess, for the OP, if you think that this grandma deserves a fighting chance, despite her son being a poor excuse of a "man", then give her that opportunity. If she fails, at least you tried. If she doesn't, then you have a staple in your child's life that is not only his/her "color" but also from outside your family. Let's face it, family members are often times one sided with each other, and an "outsider" gives more "options".
Anyone else following me here??? My words are coming out correctly, I know....
It's not your responsibility to tell his family about his child. I know you want to for your child but again it's not your responsibility.....
while I was in councling my councler told me to stop contacting his (then husband's) parents. (it would be one thing if your married and your the one sending out cards it's another one when he won't tell him family about his child.)
~Angela
Oh dear lord.....can one of you PLEASE show something that actually supports the resolution that Black MEN suck? Of course you can't! All you have shown is that there is a disparity with regard to race (surprise, surprise, this IS America people), but nothing in those stats places the blame on the MEN precisely, which is what I need to see in order to substantiate your absurd claim that BLACK MEN SUCK (again, at what?). Those number speak nothing of the reasons the men aren't there, for all we know it could be the WOMEN causing the problem. You have shown nothing that even identifies that the problem is even the individuals in these relationships. Not gonna waste my time educating you to the numerous contributory variables not being considered in these research results, as I suspect you wouldn't be able to keep up.
WTF? Have you ladies lost your damn minds? THOSE MEN you are dealing with suck, not ALL men,and not ALL black men! What about all the other single mothers on this board, whose men aren't black? It is truly IGNORANT to generalize all men based on your experiences with a non-significant sample size, no INTELLIGENT person would ever let some bullshit like that fly out of their mouth!
jusluvnmyboys- I agree with you on this one.
I would not say that all BLACK MEN suck. That's just ignorant to say! Yeah I picked a bad one and I learned from it. I now am so happy with the man I have whom is BLACK. He is very sweet, fine, educated, goal oriented, passionate, mmmm I can go on and on. I love that man. You know what, BITTER WOMEN kill me with their antics! Women need to really think...if you keep attracting these dogs then maybe something is wrong with YOU to make you attract them. Yeah we all can go outside of our better judgement but alot of times WE are looking and attracted to the wrong things! So before there is a generalization of one specific race...look at yo damn self and find out why you keep getting dogged out! Men treat you the way you allow them to. Anyways...I had to address them ignorant ass comments. To answer the original question...yes I would want my child involved with the other side of its family. They deserve to be apart of its life and the child deserves to know also. He was wrong.
Piscesmama- I agree with the statement. My SD has this syndrome.
I have found in MY personal experience that deadbeats fall right under the apple tree (if you catch my drift). They are usually spoiled and have mothers with the "not my Johnny" syndrome who will bail them out of everything. They have never been left to deal with the repercussions of their actions, so therefore do not know the meaning of the word responsibility.
You know what this is the reason why I don't deal with women in general. You make one comment and someone takes it over board and starts making personal attacks on you. From this moment on I hope that you can see that I dropped the issue way back before lunch....WHY ARE YOU STILL CARRYING THIS ON!!!! Is it that you don't have anything to do on this beautiful Friday afternoon or is that you are just CONFRONTATIONAL?
You did not have to personally bash me or call me IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED. I have not called you out of your name once (although I had a choice word in mind). I hope you ladies have a wonderful Friday and a Blessed Weekend.
You know what this is the reason why I don't deal with women in general. You make one comment and someone takes it over board and starts making personal attacks on you
WHY ARE YOU STILL CARRYING THIS ON!!!! Is it that you don't have anything to do on this beautiful Friday afternoon or is that you are just CONFRONTATIONAL?
Umm, actually, I am NOT the one that carried this on, someone other person came on here with some bs trying to support your ridiculous assertion, and I felt the need to say something, so what? I am actually multi-tasking right now, packing up to go out of town for my BFF mom's 50th bday party tonight, so yes, I have other things, better things to do. I just don't do well with ignoring stuff like this, sorry. What you said was not your ordinary comment, it was VERY inflammatory and you know it (or at least now you do).
You did not have to personally bash me or call me IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED. I have not called you out of your name once (although I had a choice word in mind).
Fair enough. I don't know you, so I can't personally bash you, though. I called what you said ignorant, and asserted that in my personal opinion an educated person would know better than to espouse such detrimental rhetoric in a public forum. I could have said that nicer, yes, if I wasn't so deeply appalled and insulted ( and embarassed for all black people) by what I was responding to.
ALL:
I am starting a thread on the Debate Board titled:
DO BLACK MEN SUCK?
Please feel free to take your arguments/debates over there.
Thanks!!!
oh good gods people we have better things to yell and scream about than this. she was pissed and got it off her chest in a forum she felt safe venting in. i think we should respect her anger and GET OVER IT. move on.
Until you acknowlege that there is a problem, you cannot take steps to solve it. Jusluvnmyboys, you aren't making much sense to me. It has long been known that black children go without fathers at a far higher rate than any other race. When you do a search for it, you get site after site, thesis after thesis, all saying the same thing. Now it appears that you are saying that it isn't the black man, but the female population that causes these rates to be so high? I don't understand where you are going... and then to be snarky and throw out attacks because you have nothing of substance to say? Not cool.
The women on here seemed to be venting about black men "sucking" at being fathers. You argued, I threw out proof that black men do suck (moreso than other races) at being fathers, and then you decide to insult my intelligence rather than give me proof in the other direction.
As a statistical whole, black men suck at twice the rate of any other race. I'm not saying all black men suck, as I've met quite a few that I liked. I'm just saying that the correlation is there, and to ignore it is doing the children of these men a huge disservice.
Now it appears that you are saying that it isn't the black man, but the female population that causes these rates to be so high? I don't understand where you are going... and then to be snarky and throw out attacks because you have nothing of substance to say? Not cool
No, I am not saying that at all. I am Black, and I do recognize the problem, I just don't place the blame soley on my brothers. I am intelligent enough to know better than to make such a broad statement, and I am merely acknowleging that other factors can be at play here. And I wasn't attacking her, but rather, the gross generalization she made. It was erroneous, not based on any scientific research she poured over, and it was inflammatory and insulting.
I'm gonna teach you a phrase that is crucial to understanding and interpreting statistical data:
CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION! Two variables can be related, but that does not mean that a causal relationship is evident. The relationship between Black men and the rate at which they do or don't take care of their children is NOT automatically due to the fact that they are Black and/or male. Put your thinking caps on ladies, what ELSE are we missing here? Is the only empirically sound conclusion that BLACK MEN SUCK? Are you kidding me? This is why I said I wouldn't bother, damn, I knew it would go over some heads.
To the OP: I would say let the mother know, but don't count on her to take the place of her son. Especially since this would be her grandchild and she can choose when, where, how, and why when it comes to dealing with her.
When my dd was first born her dad was a total ass. He would call and say I will go with you to the dr., and also promised to buy a crib. I learned early on not to depend on him, because he would never follow through. In the beginning his sister would come with him to visit and she got comfortable enough to come alone.
Currently DD's dad is in another state and she sees her Aunt's on a regular basis. I have never stopped them from seeing her although sometimes I am tempted. Reason being because he is not helping me out and I don't send him pictures or let him talk to her, but they can and I just have to get over it.
So if he is not around right now and you get used to him not being there try not to get upset when he does come and acts like the proud father!
Good luck.
Alright, I tried to back off of this thread, but here goes
If we can honestly say black men suck, can we say that black women are easy or stupid (for lack of a better term) for bedding them? It's a known fact that the black family unit is...well, rather dysfunctional.
Many of black families are headed by women. From a gran, to a mom, to kids... generally there aren't many men involved up and through unless they're an uncle or cousin of some sort. Sad but true.
The stats nobra included began in the 60's. Hmmm, I hate to bring a debate-esque feel to this thread, but prior to the civil rights movement, black men had been removed from their families..made to belive they were nothing more than property, worthless. Sure you could argue that by the 60's they could have overcome that mental conditioning of worthlessness, but in actuality, have they? If you had no father showing you how to be a man, how to take care of your kids, etc, how can you man up? It's a problem I agree, but it's not just the BLACK MAN.
What about the black woman? 2/3 of all african american babies are born out of wedlock... that's abouy 77%. Can we honestly say black women are easy? Stupid? (fillin adjective here)
In all honesty, if you created a poll right now, you would discover that a large marjority of white single parents on this board, were married first. (I did not say all) To the same token, the few black, single women who post here have not been married to their child's fathers (including myself) Staggering, NO?
So ITA w/ a pp who stated, you have to first look into yourself to figure out how, why women feel this way about the black man... We need to discover what the HELL Is wrong with the Black Family Unit.
SMH as I step off of my soapbox
Here you go insulting my intelligence again. I've published research, I know how to do it. Don't assume everyone is dumber than you, it's crass.
When controls for age, socioeconomic status, and level of education are all in place, there is still one constant. Sure, you'll never be able to go into each and every single parent home and conduct a qualitative study about various reasons that black men leave their children at such a high rate, but you can prove that it does happen, and that's what I'm getting at.
Sorry bama_mama, you posted as I was typing. I completely agree with you.... this problem is multi-faceted. You can't say that black women are stupid or easy, but you can say that they are more likely to have children out of wedlock.
Peace Be Still...
to the original poster...I'm going thru the same thing; he wants nothing to do with her and when his mom found out about her she was excited at first but now that I've filed for child support all of sudden she's not her grandchild anymore...you'll never know unless you try but if she starts to take up for him and turn on you then go on about your business; you never know she just may be the best grandma ever despite her son's actions...you said she kicked him out due to his lifestyle so sounds like she has morals unlike my baby's grandma...HTH
Thank you, Crystal! Good job! I know you are holding back, I am too, but you still got my point.
Nobra- Nevers said it (are you referring to them leaving their wives and children? not sure what you are referring to here) doesn't happen, I know SOME black men suck, got two idiot SD's of my own to remind me of this fact. Key word here being SOME, and key point being that it is not soley due to their race, as is implied in the statement I responded so passionately to this morning.
I passed a note to the OP, btw, don't want you guys think I am here just to cause drama.
TY-LAURENS-MOMMA- I didnt find it necessary for you to respond to the original statement the way you did BLACK MEN SUCK! Your response was AMEN TO THAT! But I dont see anyone getting in your ish for that! It pissed me off for you to respond the way you did! But everyone jumped down JINEA throat for what she said, Its simply she feels the way she feels and you all feel the way you feel. If you took this to the debate thread your intentions was to stir boo-boo, and the more you stir it the more it stinks!
TY-LAURENS-MOMMA- I didnt find it necessary for you to respond to the original statement the way you did BLACK MEN SUCK!
Who are you to tell me what is neccessary??? I can say what I want. If I think, from my experiences in life, that black men suck, that is my opinion.
Like I have said before: I won't be sucked into this drama. I have stated MY opinion. This is not what this thread was intended for.
If you wnat to debate how black men aren't responsible, run out on the children at an alarming rate, etc. take it to the debate board.
I do not personally know any of you but I just want to let you know something. I not only live the life of a single mother of two children, but I serve the single mothers in my area. I work for the State of GA and I know the hard facts of how many black men are on child support that do not pay and that have thousand of dollars in arrears vs those of other races. I also know the demographics of those families who receive TANF, Food stamps, and Medicaid in GA and as much as I hate to put it out there, they are black families. The requirement for receiving low income Medicaid is that your income is under a specified amount and if there are two parents in the household TRUST ME YOU PROBABLY WON'T QUALIFY. Although some women do abuse the system and lie, most women are put in situations where they have no other option. Whether or not the woman threw him out, left him, cheated on him, was a bad mother etc, the fact is that more black men are not doing their part then other races. Those are just the facts. I'm sorry that it is a hard pill to swallow but I would never get on here and lie. This topic hit close to home for me and I do feel very strongly about it. Again if my words offended you I apologize. I have been on both sides of the spectrum and I do believe that if we educate this next generation things will get better. The first thing that we can do as WOMEN (regardless of race) is make these men (regardless of race) accountable for their actions and responsible for their children. If you know who your child's father is make sure you get support for that child. That is our job as mothers. With that I am done. I do hope that all of you have a wonderful weekend.
Who are you to tell me what is neccessary??? I can say what I want. If I think, from my experiences in life, that black men suck, that is my opinion. Just like you said you STATED YOUR OPINION I have that same option! Not gonna argue dont really see a need to.
Be blessed chic and have a wonderful prospering afternoon!
Nobra- You are treading on VERY thin water so u really need to watch what you say. Do you have any personal experience with black men or fathers. You state there are thesis after thesis; this may be true but look who's writing it! Every news channel and news paper is bias. I can come at you with an attack on white men. They are more likely to molest and abuse their children! If you wanna throw statistics bring it on! I do this everyday in debate class! So for you to say that black men suck twice as much as any other race this is NOT a fact but a mere opinion.
This is just everyone's opinion! GET OVER IT! I agree that some of the comments on here are ignorant but to say the least they are opinions of other people.
The first thing that we can do as WOMEN (regardless of race) is make these men (regardless of race) accountable for their actions and responsible for their children. If you know who your child's father is make sure you get support for that child. That is our job as mothers
I totally agree with this statement.
To OP:
It's not your responsibility to tell his family about his child. I know you want to for your child but again it's not your responsibility.....
While it's not your responsibility, I think it is the right (and mature) thing to do if you know that SD has not told them. Put yourself in their shoes - if your child had a baby out there in the world, wouldn't you want to know about it? I sure would! How they react to the news is a completely different story, though. You shouldn't harass them about it - let it be known, and go with the flow. Disclaimer: My advice would be completely different if you had a poor relationship with SD's mom, and/or already knew that she would be the type that wouldn't care. My advice is only pertinent if she seems to be the reasonable type.
My SD is not in the picture. At all. At all at all. He did tell his mother about everything before he decided to make his grand departure from our lives, though. She is wonderful, and I could not be happier that she is involved in our lives! SD's entirely family is involved, actually - his brother, mother, grandparents, etc. They are wonderful people, and never make excuses for SD's inability to pull his head out of his arse. I'm comfortable with the relationship because they've always made an effort to make me feel welcome in their company. They treat me like family, and always tell me how thankful they are that I've allowed them to be around DS as often as they are. I love that DS gets to be around the other side of his family, and love that he gets to play with all of his cousins from that side on a regular basis. To me, it helps complete him - he feels connected to both sides of his families, regardless of the fact that his SD isn't around. While not all situations will turn out as great as mine did, I'm still a big supporter of women that at least try to involve the other side. It's not their fault that your SD is an SD (unless your SD is a minor, in which case they are still responsible 
Assuming SD's mother is a somewhat reasonable person, I would recommend contacting her. Hopefully she'll decide she wants to be involved - if not, you'll at least be able to say that you tried. As long as she's a good influence on your child and is involved for the right reasons, I think the relationship can be extremely beneficial for your kiddo.
Just my two cents
Sara
The first thing that we can do as WOMEN (regardless of race) is make these men (regardless of race) accountable for their actions and responsible for their children. If you know who your child's father is make sure you get support for that child. That is our job as mothers
I totally agree with this statement.
I concur... but why is it we should not further educate ourselves? (just curious)
If you wnat to debate how black men aren't responsible, run out on the children at an alarming rate, etc. take it to the debate board.
Nah, I think everyone here is entitled to the same opinion you claim and we will thus utilize in our own fashion.
This was not meant (in my eyes) to be a debate... but the fact remains, the cycle will continue until someone educates, innovates, and moves on. We CANNOT change anyone other than ourselves, which is why I stated the fact we should start w/ the women. It is the women who are signing up for Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc. If we can stop it at the source, there will be no sucky men to blame at all...black, white, or polka dot green for that matter.
Bama_mama_07 I totally agree with you. I can only use myself for an example, but I do remember when I had to breakdown and apply for public assistance it made me feel terrible. I had to apply because I had no money at all and I had just gotten out of a very bad situation with my oldest child's father. We have to break the cycle. I took those three months that I received TANF and got the daycare that I needed to complete my education and obtain my degree. I then returned to the same place where I received benefits and became an outreach worker who helps to preserve families. Education is very important. Another important thing to do is to get to the root of the problem. Many times these types of issues occur when our father's were not their for us and WE as women feel the need to be validated. AGAIN I CAN ONLY SPEAK ABOUT ME, but once I realized that it wasn't my fault that my father couldn't be the man that he needed to be in my life, it helped me to get over a lot. I pray that I do not ever make the mistakes that I made in choosing a mate again.
Can that conversation be taken to another thread? I think it's a disservice to the OP that this thread has taken such a turn. While I'm curious to hear other replies to the OP's question, I don't like having to sort through the other stuff to find them.
I'm sincerely not trying to be rude, and your discussion is valid. I'd just like to see this thread stay on topic.
But I dont see anyone getting in your ish for that! It pissed me off for you to respond the way you did! But everyone jumped down JINEA throat for what she said, Its simply she feels the way she feels and you all feel the way you feel
Actually, Kennedy&Me08, my response was to both of them. I lumped them together in my response because one cosigned what the other said. FYI, what bothered me the most about this whole mess, is the fact that these ladies broke the code. What code? They know, trust me. If they think about it real hard, and look at the statements by the white woman that followed, I guarantee you they know what they did wrong. I won't call them out on it here, as I am sure they won't admit to it, though. I am still sitting here shocked, really, that all this even happened.
JUSLUVNMYBOYS9807- Why are you blueing my name? I have not once refered to you during my posting! JUSLUVNMYBOYS and TY-LAURENS-MOMMA is TWO TOTALLY different people! I have not made one comment to you! I was refering to TY-LAURENS-MOMMA when I saidBut I dont see anyone getting in your ish for that! It pissed me off for you to respond the way you did! But everyone jumped down JINEA throat for what she said, Its simply she feels the way she feels and you all feel the way you feel So next time you may wanna read a little further down....If you consider yourself the anyone and the shoe fits where it. Dont FYI me cause I really dont care to be honest with you. I have a sorry-ace baby daddy myself but I have a wonderful father, amazing uncles, and superior brothers!
you have mail.
Wow... What a great way to welcome a new single parent the board.... Bringing up a debate about black fathers versus white fathers...
We're all single parents here, albeit from Black Men, or White Men, or Pink Men, or Purple Men...
Just stop beating the dead horse already ladies!
Can't the owner come in here and delete some of the garbage that isn't relevant to the OP's post??
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